Victor
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Re: Experienced too difficult, please hear me out...

Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:44 pm

Hey Den.

Again I really appreciate the info and the fact that Housemarque recognizes this problem.

Also once again, you guys can have your high scores on the harder difficulties. They are indeed yours. I will never achieve them and I fully accept that.

I realize this is a very touchy and delicate subject. A subject that clashes with Housemarque's vision for this game and what they want it to be.

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DenT4FacE
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Re: Experienced too difficult, please hear me out...

Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:05 pm

Hey sure thing.. and it ain't about high scores. HMQ has a vision for this game. Kind of like From Software has one for the Souls games. It is meant to be challenging by design.

The reason I'm insistent about Veteran is that I want it to remain something to be DAMN proud of. Not sure if you're able to understand this.. we just met.. but I've had this type of conversation with other people in the past and they didn't get it. This about having the skills OR having the dedication to EARN the necessary skills and conquer the game. It's about figuring strategies and knowing what works and what doesn't.. it's about becoming a master at the game and turn something difficult into something manageable into something easy. I'm rambling...

There is no high score without the 1 credit clear.. so it ain't about that. I'm just concerned about losing the pride of being one of those who could beat this game on Veteran (and later on Master). But I do recognize that the difficulty spike between Rookie and Experienced is quite steep and that'S a bit unfair for players who do not really care about overcoming something that's bigger than them (don't get me wrong, I worked hard to beat Veteran, it was bigger than me as well for a while..). This is about not closing the game entirely to people who want a decent challenge without it being frustrating. Hope you can understand what I'm saying here.. I don't mean to be condescending and I'm worried that it may sound like I am. I'm not... Making the continues more fair for Experienced makes sense. They know it, I know it.. they're just trying to find the right solution. They don't want to make it too easy either. I'm sure you agree it wouldn't be as fun if 99 continues simply meant that you have 300 lives to clear the game.

Fair warning, the True Last Boss (after Supreme AI) can be reached by beating the game without continuing, this boss will definitely remain absurdly difficult. It has to be... it really really does :)
Formerly known as Cobra_Qc on Housemarque forums and on PSN

Victor
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Re: Experienced too difficult, please hear me out...

Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:36 pm

Hey Den.

No offense taken. I recognize and respect your position.

Nice to be able to have an open and civil dialogue like adults. :-)

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Re: Experienced too difficult, please hear me out...

Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:19 am

DenT4FacE wrote:HMQ is currently figuring out a way to make the game enjoyable for you guys.

I understand your gripes.. but I gotta admit that I wouldn't want them to make it too easy to beat either. But the current continue system is a bit harsh, especially on Experienced, not for me but like I said, I understand. There's also some issues with some rooms spawn killing us, this is known and will more than likely be fixed. But I gotta say, I'm working hard for them to keep Veteran and up pretty much as challenging as it currently is, in turn, I hope you guys understand where I'm coming from :)

To be clear, I'm not HMQ and I'm not that influential. Just thought I'd let you know that they (and some of the top players) are hearing you out.
Long time no see, thanks for the update. Is it true that most of the community is on Discord now?

I wanted to add that there is nothing wrong with making really hard games of course, Super Meat Boy says hi. Personally my "disappointment" just comes from being a long time Housemarque fan and being locked out of the game so much earlier this time, which was a complete surprise to me. And likely not being able to work towards the Platinum trophy which I enjoyed so much in Resogun, but I know that I'm not entitled to an "easy" plat.

You say Veteran and up is in a good spot, that's interesting. If the leaderboards are correct and about 40+2 people worldwide have been able to beat Master and Hero, isn't that a massive spike in difficulty compared to Resogun? That sounds like available difficulties for 99.9% of players (even hardcore ones) have been reduced from 5 to 3.

DenT4FacE wrote:The reason I'm insistent about Veteran is that I want it to remain something to be DAMN proud of. Not sure if you're able to understand this.. we just met.. but I've had this type of conversation with other people in the past and they didn't get it. This about having the skills OR having the dedication to EARN the necessary skills and conquer the game. It's about figuring strategies and knowing what works and what doesn't.. it's about becoming a master at the game and turn something difficult into something manageable into something easy. I'm rambling...

I absolutely get that. But wouldn't you get the same satisfaction from beating Master or Hero? The third of five difficulties already being so hard that one of the best players considers it an accomplishment sounds completely crazy to me.

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DenT4FacE
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Re: Experienced too difficult, please hear me out...

Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:44 am

Hey Suzi, yeah.. it's mostly about Discord now. You guys should join, the server is open to all since game release.

In theory, yes I would get the same satisfaction Suzi.. BUT... Master and Hero are balls out hard. Gotta keep the difficulty spikes constant. Also, It's nice to have a tough difficulty that doesn't have revenge bullets. Those change the game completely..

And while I understand your gripes, I honestly don't think Experienced is TOO hard. It's the Continues system that's unfair to players who can't or don't want to get better at the game. I really hope this is not misunderstood... It's challenging but it's not that bad either.

And if it's about not being able to get the platinum (ain't saying it's your case..), whether Resogun was easier and accessible to all doesn't mean that Nex should be as well. Easy plats sell games but they're no fun for guys like me. I rather have plats that are too difficult to obtain than plats that are given away. I'm rambling again.. but allow me to throw the ball back at you, if Experienced has a more lenient continue system, while remaining just right difficulty wise for "everyone", thus allowing you to beat the full game.. why should Veteran be more lenient as well? Wouldn't that make it somewhat like Experienced currently is?

Anyway.. I've said what I had to say.. I chimed in mostly to let you know that Yepe is on vacation, this is why you guys haven't got an official reply yet. Figured you'd appreciate knowing that this is being addressed. But on the same token, Nex was designed to be harder than Resogun because this is what many hoped for and it is also what HMQ wanted to do.


Give us time to beat Master and reach Hero.. we need it.. much more than you need it to beat Experienced.. but we strive for this. This is high quality replay value for us.

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Formerly known as Cobra_Qc on Housemarque forums and on PSN

Victor
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Re: Experienced too difficult, please hear me out...

Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:52 am

Hey SuziQ. Good post.

Like you I am also slowly chasing the trophies.

From my perspective, the hardest ones are...

Clearing Arcade Experienced
Clearing Arcade Veteran
Clearing Arcade Experienced on 1 credit
Human Combo of 50

As far as I am aware, you only have to clear the Techno Forest on Master and there are no trophies for Hero.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Even then, that's a tall order. But yes, you are correct, nobody is entitled to an easy platinum.

Like you said, the biggest thing is the initial shock after just 5 days, being locked out of certain portions of the game.

Right now I'm just slowly picking up the easy and medium trophies. Playing Arcade Rookie as well. Trying to get better.

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DenT4FacE
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Re: Experienced too difficult, please hear me out...

Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:22 am

Aaaah so it is about the trophies xD
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Victor
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Re: Experienced too difficult, please hear me out...

Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:34 am

Trophies are indeed part of it Den.

I'm not gonna insult your intelligence and say that they aren't. That would be a lie and be very rude as well.

But I'm gonna commit to try and get better at this game. Tomorrow starts a new week and I will do my best to clear Experienced Arcade.

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DenT4FacE
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Re: Experienced too difficult, please hear me out...

Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:06 am

Yeah, I understand the shock you're referring to..

Just going to say my piece about trophies real quick, if a game is difficult and the platinum is easy to get.. I just can't grasp the purpose of that. Is it just to make your trophy numbers bigger? Because when somebody says they have Super Meatboy platinum and they have proof to show it, you know the player is absolutely nuts. But if it was easy to obtain like a TellTale game, what's the point? Who cares? I don't know... it's just weird to me and I have plats. I chase them.. I have Nex for example but that's just the tip of the iceberg for me. The game just started and now I'm ready to play it for real (improve my scores and beat the hardest difficulties).

Now I'm not saying I wish we had to beat Hero to earn the platinum, it's nice when there's a bit of balance (based on how difficult the game is vs how difficult it is to obtain the platinum,).. but I wouldn't be against it and I may very well never earn it but I'd be more than cool with it. That said, I am happy with this platinum, it's a challenging one and when people tell me that they have it too, I can honestly congratulate them because I know they struggled, But when someone tells me they have the Resogun platinum, all I can do is nod politely and think "ok...". Back to the balance I was speaking of, the platinum should lean towards the hard side of the balance rather than the easy side.. otherwise it loses its meaning completely imho. And Nex is indeed much more difficult than Resogun. We're back to some HMQ fans expecting an easier game than this.. to which I don't have anything to say. Rookie ain't so bad and Experienced is likely going to be tweaked. But only in an attempt to please everyone, which is impossible.

That's just my own perspective and I am not saying everyone should see it my way.. I can relate to you guys, you relied on the fact that it's a HMQ title and they usually have fun but almost automatic platinums. I just hope that's not the primary reason you buy their games. And I could be wrong but I wouldn't get my hopes up for them to make it easier to get this plat. Veteran is probably going to stay very close to how it is if not exactly as it is.. but I've been wrong before. And I ain't the one that you need to convince. At this point I should let HMQ give you the official what's what. ;-)
Formerly known as Cobra_Qc on Housemarque forums and on PSN

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xV_Stee7ers_Vx
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Re: Experienced too difficult, please hear me out...

Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:38 am

Victor wrote:But I'm gonna commit to try and get better at this game. Tomorrow starts a new week and I will do my best to clear Experienced Arcade.

That's the spirit, if you end up getting stuck on a boss with out nothing but you're pea shooter and secondary weapon i made a guide. on how to do it and hope it helps if you decide to watch it.. good luck man! :1cool:
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