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tommasodb
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Re: Final results in league screwed up

Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:03 am

Malphas, you should ask a refund to Sony Support (the game was never £30 btw, launch price was £15.99. If you bought it when you say you bought it, you got a 45% discount too, for a gran total of... £8,89?). We don't deal directly with anything that has to do with the shop, including user payments and refunds. I'm not aware of their policies, so they might refund even after you clearly played dozens of hours with it if you make an argument for it.

We also do not decide when a game is on sale and when it's not, our publisher does that. It seems to me you're a bit confused on how this all works, and that we are dependent on the publisher's decisions for IPs they own.

Anyway, the bug is admittedly nasty for dedicated players, and I wish it could be fixed – everyone here wants it to be fixed. It should be obvious no one enjoys having a score-based game out with a bug in the leaderboards.
But we can't publish a patch if we don't get a green light for it, and at the moment that light is red.

That said, I still think there's PLENTY to be enjoyed in Alienation – if you play it exclusively to see a number go up, perhaps you're not having much fun with it anyway?

PS: and, I need to say this, if games were to be pulled from stores every time someone finds a bug, there would be no game on sale. In the "good old days" you referenced bugs stayed in and no one could do a damn thing about them until the sequel. Overall, I think you should like more the current landscape.

Insanity
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Re: Final results in league screwed up

Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:13 am

Out of interest, how do you end up working on a game without any control over when to patch it?

Malphas
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Re: Final results in league screwed up

Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:35 am

Still broken.

tommasodb wrote:Malphas, you should ask a refund to Sony Support


Whenever I bought it I don't think it was £8.99 and it probably wasn't £30, that's just the number that came in to my head... Basically I have everything on the store is unlocked. So whatever that costs - I really wasn't paying that much attention when I bought it and I've moved house so the precise time, date and cost of the purchase got pushed out of my head. I don't care about the money, I was just making a point.

I bought what I bought because there was a league system, it broke - I was having fun playing before it broke. Fun's subjective, you can't really say much more than that about it without it being complete guesswork.

Bugs that I find in games rarely get on my nerves, they are rarely game breaking and the ones that are can (almost) always be cured by wiping everything and starting again. I agree that if every game was pulled when someone found a bug there would be no games on sale, but I wasn't suggesting that every game gets pulled when any bug is discovered. I said it's bad Karma to keep selling a defective product and not offering a refund - not up to me if you do or you don't - I'm just saying it's bad karma.

tommasodb wrote:In the "good old days" you referenced bugs stayed in and no one could do a damn thing about them until the sequel.


Yeah, that's the same situation that I'm in now.

tommasodb wrote:Overall, I think you should like more the current landscape.


Well, I've had my moneys worth and whatever reason I had for playing it wasn't fun by your standards, I think you've made that clear. The current landscape has it's ups and downs.

The game's gone. I'm out, it's been interesting.

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tommasodb
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Re: Final results in league screwed up

Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:56 am

Insanity wrote:Out of interest, how do you end up working on a game without any control over when to patch it?


That's how the relationship developer-publisher works. Of course we can _suggest_ patches but we can't push them out without the publisher approval (because, very simply, the money we use to make the game, patch it and support it is theirs). This is especially true for how Sony works, everything goes through their Quality Assurance team first, they review the patch, and only then it can be published (so yeah, they didn't find the leaderboard bug either).

I believe even big projects like Bungie's Destiny can't push patches around without Activision's approval.

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Yepe
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Re: Final results in league screwed up

Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:04 pm

tommasodb wrote:
Insanity wrote:Out of interest, how do you end up working on a game without any control over when to patch it?


That's how the relationship developer-publisher works. Of course we can _suggest_ patches but we can't push them out without the publisher approval (because, very simply, the money we use to make the game, patch it and support it is theirs). This is especially true for how Sony works, everything goes through their Quality Assurance team first, they review the patch, and only then it can be published (so yeah, they didn't find the leaderboard bug either).

I believe even big projects like Bungie's Destiny can't push patches around without Activision's approval.

Here's an example: Sony won't allow Fallout 4 or Skyrim mods.
It's time to squash bugs and chew bubble gum... and I'm all outta gum. :1rolleyes:

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Re: Final results in league screwed up

Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:26 pm

tommasodb wrote:I believe even big projects like Bungie's Destiny can't push patches ...


I think the point where I stopped caring about your hands being tied is when you opened my eyes to the fact that two hours of gameplay is how much developers value my patronage these days.

I didn't realise that was a thing... It is. Makes me lose all sympathy.

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tommasodb
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Re: Final results in league screwed up

Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:52 am

Malphas, I tried to put every card on the table in the hope it would make reconsider the situation under a different light. It clearly doesn't matter how well I try to expose what are the problems we're dealing with because this leaderboard bug (which we cannot fix because we're not allowed to) will forever mark your soul as an unacceptable insult to you hard earned $. So I guess you made your point and we hear you loud and clear. Our name is tainted in your eyes and that's the end of it. Anything else we can do for you?

neolithic
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Re: Final results in league screwed up

Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:56 pm

Tomasso,
That's a very, very bad and uncomtortable Situation you're in :-?
But I think you acted right!
You had 3 choices:
1. Tell us the truth
2. Lie to us
3. A combination of 1. And 2.

The Situation would be the same regardless which Option you would have chosen.
Sony won't let you (housemarque) work on the problems.
And if you would do it anyway you would be punished if other projects would suffer because of this.
If those problems would be fixed in an instant I'm very sure, that you would fix it, but that's something what has to be investigated and needs time.

In my opinion you choose the best Option to put every card on the table.
Those who are able to understand the Position you're in are now calmed down and those who are unable to understand would be angry regardless what you say.

I'm pretty sure that I forgot to write something, because I wrote this post with many many breaks, because there was so much to do at work today :-(

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tommasodb
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Re: Final results in league screwed up

Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:00 am

Thanks neolithic, it's pretty much as you're breaking it down. Worth noticing that the publisher asked us not to continue work on the title not because they're evil people, but just because at the end of the day they need to do what makes financial sense for them as well (yes, there are games you can work on at a loss, but this is not the case). Unfortunately not everything can be done just with passion, but that is valid pretty much for any other market.

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Re: Final results in league screwed up

Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:56 pm

Yup Tomasso,
You guys need to make a financial plus otherwise that could be your last game...
It's no use for anyone if alienation is fixed and patched until perfection (although I would like that) but housemarque is so financial screwed afterwards that it's their end...

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